According to the French, there were three sexes: men, women and clergymen. Being an ordained minister myself, and having pastored for 11 
years, I agree with the gist of this statement: Pastors are a different breed.
But if you’re expecting a beat-down on Christian ministers, this is not that. I respect the ministry, love pastors, and think their job is one of the most difficult and important in the world. Recently, my friend Janet Rubin, introduced her pastor to the Planeteers, and I think this is about the coolest thing in the world! Praise God for faithful, inspired, “in touch,” ministers.
Still, after more than a decade of church service, I’ve come to believe that
Pastors can get really out of touch with the average person.
It’s a unique profession: You listen to problems, give advice, study a lot, administrate programs, delegate people, receive criticism, set budgets, fundraise, recruit, demote, discipline, encourage, visit the dying, bury the dead, and comfort the grieving, and then you are expected to get up every weekend and say something profound, inspiring and practical. Furthermore, your wife must be sociable and happy, your kids must be 
obedient, respectful, and well-adjusted, and you must be humble, prayerful, devout, knowledgeable, funny, eloquent, tactful, well-groomed, quick on your feet, slow with your tongue, frugal with your money and relatively free of vice.
As a result, pastors often live in a cocoon – emotionally, spiritually, and relationally; not only does their congregation rarely “get†them, they often drift out of touch with their congregation.
I recall once attending a pastor’s conference in which a popular minister was speaking. In a Q&A session, he was asked how the average church member could be engaged to serve, be more involved in the church, and catch a bigger vision for their life and ministry. That pastor said something I’ve never forgotten: The dreams of the average church member are far different than that of the average pastor. While the pastor dreams of growing his church and seriously involving his people in the ministry, his people dream of simply having happy marriages, raising good kids, pursuing satisfying careers, and maybe, just maybe, helping someone find their way to heaven.
The problem with many pastors is this disconnect between them and the average person. The ministry tends to make us tunnel-visioned; we become so busy trying to grow our church, so enamored by doctrines and models and demographics, so cloistered by our circle of ministry associates and Christian friends, that we lose touch with those outside that circle. Secular culture and “church culture†often becomes a Grand Canyon that few ministers are able to bridge.
When I left the ministry in ’97, I went back into construction. Frankly, it was the best thing that ever happened to my “ministry.†Working with people who had no spiritual aspirations whatsoever, did not speak “Christianese†(in fact, when they spoke, it was about male and/or female genitalia — or what the guys in our shop call “dick talk” — using mostly four-letter words), saw Sunday as the day to nurse their hangover, viewed Christianity as irrelevant, Christians as morons, and clergymen as, well, a third sex.
For someone who worked in a church for 11 years, this was culture shock. But I’ve l
earned to love these guys and, I think, they would say the same about me. I don’t preach at them or turn my nose at their disgusting jokes, but neither do I participate. (At least, most of the time.) I’ve prayed with a couple of them, officiated two weddings, had one play basketball with me in our church league, went fishing with them, drank beer together, listened to their struggles and frustrations, and answered their Bible questions. For all intents and purposes, this has become a type of “ministry.”
The problem with pastors is that most of them have no access to people and opportunities like this.
It’s one of the seriously significant things about Jesus: He was among the common folk. In fact, Jesus spent time with some fairly raggedy people — associations that He took a lot of flak over. If the average pastor were to associate with the type of people Jesus did, he would also get lots of criticism from his church. In fact, I wonder if it’s even possible for pastors to follow Jesus’ model WITHOUT leaving the ministry — at least, the ministry as we know it.
And maybe that’s part of the problem with pastors — our expectations and demands of them. Face it: we hire our ministers to focus on “church issues” and “church people” and “church responsibilities.” Is it any wonder they get out of touch with the average Joe? As Jesus demonstrated, life goes on OUTSIDE the temple. Likewise, we need to love our pastors enough to get them OUT of the church.
Much truth in this post Mike. One of the reasons I love my pastor so much is because I’ve been to other churches and experienced other well-meaning but out-of-touch pastors. I think the differences you mentioned between the dreams of pastors and the dreams of the average church member is key. But I’m not sure it has to be that way. My Pastor Joe is constantly reminding us that there is only One church. His goal is not to grow our church, but to grow The Church. He was at ground Zero ministering for months, he was in Missippi rebuilding houses, on Thanksgiving he was downtown serving meals to the homeless and poor and praying with them, and he and his wife have those neighborhood kids over for dinner and bring them to youth group. His invitations always emphasize that he is NOT encouraging anyone to join our church, that it is okay if you never come back to this church again, but that we want you to meet the Savior. I think keeping the focus on growing THE CHURCH as opposed to growing OUR CHURCH helps keep a pastor from viewing his sheep as pack mules put there by God to work, work, work, and help the pastor see his vision fulfilled. If the pastor can remember that the most important thing to the “average Joe” is his family, which is the ministry God gave him, or his job, which is the mission field God gave him, it will keep the pastor from mistakenly thinking that all the people are just a part of his ministry. We all have these tendancies to think that we and our ministries are central. Even the way authors think of readers… “MY readers”, the people who read MY stuff, who make up MY platform, who encourage ME. How we think about them is so important. They are not there for us. We are here for them– to provide entertainment or inspiration or encouragment.
Okay, I’m getting off topic, but yes, thank God for pastors! They need our constant prayers and support. Thanks for this, Mike. I’m glad God is directing your path and that you are where you are, doing what you are doing now.
Wanted to add that I am probable MORE out of touch than my pastor is. A stay-at-home, home schooling mom who spends her time at church, or hanging out with Christian friends or listening to Christian music…
I recently went to register for three college classes (going back after 10 years off). Just by reading the republican-bashing, pro-choice, and pro-evolution bumper stickers (ie. “Evolution is a FACT, God is a THEORY”), not to mention all rainbow stickers and ones touting the glories of being Wiccan…I could tell that I’m in for some culture shock!
i wanted to shout a whole-hearted “amen” about this post… how pastors need to be engaged in their community, especially as the church i attend is trying to find a new head pastor… but i also feel convicted, because i am very often not fully present in my own daily ministry… i find myself thinking about the future, instead of being available to the people and situations around me as a christian in the general workplace/day-to-day existance. it was indeed a fine reminder, as i am about to head off to work.
one other thing you said, the laundry list of responsibilities of a pastor… i’ve found myself saying, more and more, that i feel called to be a preacher, but that i don’t feel i’ve been equiped to sheapard congregations… do you feel there is any validity to splitting the preacher/sheapard roles?
I’ve seen, experienced, such a different side of the “church” through my divorce and being a single mom than I ever knew existed … and I’ve often wanted to tell those in church leadership who have blatantly turned their noses at me (and, unfortunately others … so it’s not all about me … but it is about those of us who are not whatever enough to be included in church)… I’ve often wanted to tell them, or ask them … if Jesus walked in our neighborhood today, would He come into your home, all decked out and full of love and care? Or would He come into mine, where I’m crying in pain, alone because you won’t call or visit me much less offer me a cup of cold water … and my kids are crying in pain … and I have bills to pay that I can not … and I don’t have health insurance, so you can’t visit me in the nice hospitals with the best physicians.
I am at a place of great apathy toward the church. I’m tired of being told I’m “family” when the only time they want to kinda treat me like family is when we’re sitting in church and my kids are acting perfect (which, btw, rarely happens). I have been weakened by the church. It takes more strength to hold my head up and walk into church on Sundays than I have sometimes. It is a place of pain and isolation … and my girls sense it, too.
The church wants to put me into programs, but I don’t fit into the programs they have … mostly b/c I can’t go out and do things at night b/c I have to care for my kids who have to be in bed before the nice programs are finished, so free childcare doesn’t even help. And, I hate being shuffled off to the side into a program. Why can’t I just be included as a part of the church?
I have no answers … only a lot of pain … from my experiences with church in the last couple years.
Janet, it sounds like you have a terrific pastor. It is great to hear about ministers whose focus is expanding the kingdom of God, not their own church. Nevertheless — and I think this is something the average church member does not appreciate — there is tremendous pressure upon pastors to grow their own church. Not only is there a Scriptural mandate to “make more disciples” (which implies organizational / numeric / spiritual growth), but there are expectations of members, peer pressure, and social status / stigmas often attached to one’s church. Furthermore, a pastor’s livelihood is usually tied to the affluence, success and size of his church, which also pressurizes his life. If I can get my church past the “500 barrier,” I can probably also look forward to a raise. That ministers can rise above all these factors and keep their hearts simply on serving Jesus, is a noteworthy accomplishment.
Mike, good post but wrong conclusion, in my opinion. The pastor shouldn’t be the one hanging out with your construction crew. You should be, as you are. The pastor should stir us up for ministry where God has put us. It is not the pastor’s job to rush to the schools, construction sites, offices, banks, and so on. His job is to implant us with the wherewithall to do the work of the gospel. The real mistake the church in America has made is in fostering this belief that “the professionals” do the ministry.
Ame, I understand only from the outside looking in, what you’re experiencing. But I firmly believe WE are the church. Don’t look to the programs your local body has that don’t fit. Find those others you mentioned and see what you can give them, according to how God has equipped you. In the end, I believe He will meet your needs too.
Becky
Becky – I absolutely agree … and I do … it just doesn’t fit into the structure of the “church,” and when I’ve tried to work through the church, they didn’t want what I was able to offer.
If I’ve been told once, I’ve been told a thousand times in one form or another … to get you’ve gotta give. If they knew how much I give, no one would ever say that to me ever again.
Because I cannot fit into the structure of the way churches want to reach others like me … either on the giving or the receiving end, then what I can do is not “counted” among the religious. But among those I am able to help and reach out to, it counts a lot.
I am always willing and ready to help others in any way I can … I am simply at a place in my life where “how” I can help is greatly limited … so whenever I have the opportunity and ability to help another, I do it. Not for praise … and certainly not for recognition, for the ways I am able to help are not publicly recognizable, and certainly not recognizable within the church. I do it because I cannot not help others. It’s simply who I am.
People who draw the conclusion that I am not reached because I do not reach out do not know me … and they also use it as a convenient way to ease their mind of any guilt for not having even checked on us to see if we need anything.
I may sound harsh … but what I have experienced is much more harsh than any normal “church-goer” would ever care to know exists … and I know; I was one.
Another thing that bothers me when people assume God will meet my needs … does God really meet our needs? How about the homeless? The children close to death b/c of the choices of their parents? The children who are starving? It’s perplexing to me … and flippant … when someone tells me God will meet my needs when it is so obvious that there are SO many needs, real and basic needs, not met. “Need” becomes abstract when you wonder how a child is protected from her sexually abusive dad … or when a child is used by her mother to pay the men who bring her drugs … or when a parent uses food money to feed their addiction … and then there’s the “love” need … a basic need … that is then never met for these children. I believe that I am coming to the place where “God meeting my needs” will happen when I cross over into heaven, but not in this life.
Rebecca, I agree. I once heard a pastor say, “People ask me what our outreach program is like. I tell them we don’t have an outreach program; healthy sheep reproduce.” I’ve always loved that. I think the main reason a pastor might get “out of touch” is if he is pastoring a church of Christians… Christians who have been Christians for a long time, the same old members year after year and no new believers. At my church, there are always new people coming, there are people getting saved every week. There are people recovering from all kinds of addictions and heartaches, people just toddling throught the infancy stage of their Christian walk, still trying to kick the swearing habit, still going outside for a smoke…but being transformed. When you are in a church where you are ministering to people who are not yet saved, or are newly saved, as well as people who are mature in their walk, I think there is less chance to get out of touch. Why some churches are stagnant and not growing… that’s another post.
Jason asked, “. . .do you feel there is any validity to splitting the preacher/sheapard roles?” I absolutely do! It is our culture that has merged those roles and made them synonymous. Nowadays, we expect our pastors to be all those things — administrators, counselors, theologians, and darned good preachers. The caricature, however, is largely shaped by the televangelist or mega-church pastor image (which is more like a CEO than a shepard), and not Scripture.
Part of the reason I left the ministry was this confusion of roles. While my giftings lay in the area of speaking / teaching, I was primarily asked to serve in other capacities. Of course, there’s no problem with this, except that after a while, I felt my real talents were being buried.
Scripture teaches that God created offices (pastors, teachers, apostles, prophets — Eph. 4:11) and corresponding gifts (I Cor. 12). Part of the problem with pastors, as I see it, is that we require them to fill more offices and operate in more gifts than they actually have. I know that some churches operate in a “plurality of elders” model; as such, elders occupy roles that are aligned with their gifts, so you have a “pastor of teaching,” “pastor of counseling,” “pastor of worship,” etc. I happen to think this is a far more biblical model than say the jack-of-all-trades pastors we now have.
Does that answer your question, Jason?
Rebecca beat me to the punch. Ditto her comment.
Mike. Once again I find myself responding to one of your post with basically “Why can’t there be both?”
I’m sensing a pattern here with many of our disagreements. It seems to me ( this is probably going to sound a lot more abrasive than I intend so I apologize to you in advance 🙂 ) that you want everyone to do it your way or you’re conclusion is: they’re doing it the wrong way.
We need pastors who minister to the congregation. We also need pastors who specialize in outreach. We also need former pastors turned construction contractor who writes fiction on the side reaching out in his own special way.
I would like to see some churches adopt what you’re talking about by having two pastors. Those called to the congregation and those called beyond. We all have different strengths.
Jason, I’ve gone through exactly what you’re talking about. I felt called to preach but I’m not equipped to pastor. I lack the social skills necessary for the job. Some have told me “don’t worry about your weaknesses. God will be there to show you the way.” The problem is I feel God has not called me to be a pastor. Being a pastor is far more than preaching. That is why I’ve taken up writing. I’m looking for the outlet to fulfill that call of preaching. I hope to one day combine public speaking with my writing and therefore fulfill that call. Have you ever considered being an associate pastor?
Ame. When I got divorced, my lifelong Christian friends abandoned me. It was my non-Christian friends who were there when I needed friends the most. This hurt me and perplexed me. I could almost understand if I had cheated on or beat my wife, but that was not the case. I didn’t even initiate the divorce. Because of this, I left the church (not Jesus) for several years. It was too late for me, but the next two churches I attended were totally opposite. Both reached out with no condemnation or judgement and one has an outstanding divorce care program. My only advice to you is keep looking. I should have.
Dear Ame, please, PLEASE know that there are Christian brothers and sisters who care, who understand, and who share your concerns. And as cliched as it sounds, the Father’s heart breaks for you and your girls. The devil would love to use this season of your life to sour you against God’s beloved Bride. I urge you: resist him.
If you are unhappy with your church, find another. Of course, at some point we all come to the realization that there isn’t a perfect church to meet all our needs, and we need to settle down. (In fact, it might even be wrong to choose a church based entirely on our “needs” in the first place.) Nevertheless, finding one that “fits” you and your station of life seems important enough to make it a project. In the process however — and I’m sure you know this — be cautious about characterizing the Church by the churches. It’s so easy to generalize: “Christians are all like this” or “Churches are all like that.” Your current experience with Christians — and with MEN for that case — may be an imperfect barometer of the reality of things. I encourage you, sister, DO NOT let the flawed blind you to the beautiful. Ame, there are beautiful things about you, your family, and the screwed up people you call Christian friends.
You said, “I am coming to the place where ‘God meeting my needs’ will happen when I cross over into heaven, but not in this life.” You’re right: We will never have all our needs met in this life. But Jesus didn’t open His flesh on the cross so that we could limp around unfulfilled and miserable. Scripture says to cast all our cares upon Him, because He cares for us (I Peter 5:7). You will never lose the scars of your divorce, but you needn’t mire in the misery of it either. Garbage makes great fertilizer. “He cares for you.” And, I believe, He can make a difference. There is much ahead for you.
* * *
Jesus, I pray for Ame. You’ve crossed our paths here on this silly website, but You love her so, so much. Open the eyes of her heart, lift her up above the fray, grant her resolve to keep on, to not lose heart, protect, heal, and manifest, O Lord, Your great love. Amen.
Agreeing with Mike’s prayer for you, Ame. Don’t give up.
Becky, I’m not sure I was making the “conclusion” that you interpreted. I believe pastors should “equip the saints for the work of the ministry” (Eph. 4:12). I am in a far better place to reach these Neanderthals than is a full-time pastor. But I also believe that part of this “equipping” is an organic, heartfelt, genuine connection to “the world as it is” — as opposed to the insulated “church world.” Obviously, for pastors to associate with full-time construction workers, or any other “secular” trade, they could not be full-time pastors. Nevertheless, familiarity with that “culture,” its raw and gritty realism, and a freedom to interact with it on occasion, is essential to “in touch” pastoring. My assertion is not that I can’t minister there, but that there are “barriers” in place to prevent the average pastor from “hanging out” with and the construction crew. Thanks for your comments, Becky!
Thank you for praying for me.
“but you needn’t mire in the misery of it either. Garbage makes great fertilizer.”
I do not believe this is true of me.
I do believe that I am very, very tired and weak … and people have more advice than I have strength to carry it out.
I’m not sure what I will do about church. I have taken my kids through three churches in the last two years … it’s hard on them. The one we’re at is okay … Youngest feels safe there. I’m the only single adult/single parent there. The preacher is pretty good but sometimes takes off from the scriptures in odd ways.
I think, for me personally, I am “odd” for the church. I have no family – they can’t seem to get that here in Texas. Everybody has some family here … they just don’t get that we have none. Also, my Youngest needs additional care that others don’t understand … and that limits me. I am thankful to be able to care for her. Caring for her is an enormous amount of work on many levels. People just don’t get it. I’ve been in church since I was nine. I’ve always loved the church. I do not understand this time in my life. There are a few of you out there who give me hope that there are those who really care. It’s not even the big things … it’s the little things that take so little time and effort that make the most difference. And even when informed nicely, they still don’t get it. I am absolutely worn out and exhausted … but people don’t get that either. So, I do the best I can to live each day with whatever strength God gives me, till the sun rises for the next and I begin again. I have no choice. I have children to raise. As long as He leaves me here, I’ll be the best mom He enables me to be for my girls.
OK Mike, finally a blog to cause a longtime lurker to step out from the safety of the shadows and share.
I can and will write with some authority and insight and much affection about you as a pastor.
Mike you were a good pastor. You were a young man with a young family, but you led your congregation through many difficult valleys as well as some pretty majestic mountain tops. And you did so with the true heart of a sheperd called and led by the Spirit of God. You did some innovative things as a pastor. You took your stool and shared your heart instead of your message one Sunday so that the church could pray for you, and see the example of bearing one anothers burden. You weren’t disconnected, you picketed an abortion clinic once a week with a few women. You were a good pastor. People say leadership flows from the top, the church was a loving God-seeking family and that flowed from your example.
Mike you also are unequivocally one of, if not the most gifted teacher/preacher I (and anyone else I know who has ever heard you teach) have ever heard. You know that I could write a short book here, but let me simply say that your teachings were annointed and powerful, profound, thought-provoking, and always challenging. Definately not your run of the mill Sunday morning messages. And watching the way you could command a crowd was always interesting and incredible. I’ve seen many speakers, from ‘superstar’ christians, to college professors, and never have I watched people be as captivated by a speaker, or “be in his or her hands” as I have with you. You know the last couple of times you spoke I went and payed special attention to the people. It was funny, cool too. What can I say, it’s a gift man, plain and simple…a gift.
But I do rejoice that you are able to continue to find an avenue for your gift through writing.
To everyone reading this, Mike will say I am biased
He is right. However, I have had the pleasure and priveledge to hear him speak so he can’t argue with me. HA! Love ya.
Ame, You’ll be in my prayers.
mike- thanks for the response, it certainly answered my question… i seem to always have this doubt, even when i feel the Spirit is the source of a thought or connection between life and Scripture…. until it’s confirmed by someone that isn’t an in-law or Bible-study mate since i often feel we may be far to kindred and not nearly as inquisitive as we ought to be…
dayle- i think i have considered every position available, and even created a few new ones in my mind… i think that i’m in the begining stages of finding a new kind of revival ministry… when most churches speak of “revival” they are, in my mind, really planning an evangelical crusade… the local body might be up lifted as a by-product, but it’s more about “winnin’ souls!!!” i, however, feel a true “REVIVAL” would be the reverse… christians getting fires lit under their posteriors and evanngelism results as an out-pour of that… that is the ministry i have felt the most strongly pulled towards…
now i just need to find someone to pay for me to finish school, write a book, find a publisher, and get out on the road, all while keeping food in the mouths of my wife and i… and a roof over our heads…
good grief
Oh, I just had to say how precious it was to see your shepherd side show itself towards Ame. The gifts and callings of God are irrevocable. You still have the heart, Moses (says she with a warm smile on her face).
Love you!
Dayle, I would reiterate what I said to Becky, that I think you both misinterpreted my conclusions. While I have no problem with the idea of two pastors — one for the congregation and another for outreach — I’m not sure it needs to be an either/or. In some ways, the preaching / shepherding / congregational pastor SHOULD be the one with an intimate knowledge of the people he pastors and the world they occupy. But, once again, this would require less time in the church and more time with the people, which is the rub.
(And anyone who doesn’t do it this way, “they’re doing it the wrong way”!) 😉
Mike, isn’t the main problem probably with the actual set up of modern American churches? i.e. church government/structure? I mean in Acts they didn’t have committees and voting and a poster up front showing the status of the new pew fund. And when things did get a little too busy for the leaders, they invented deacons to serve so the pastors could minister. We’ve lost that. Think of house churches in China, meeting in secret. Most of them have evangelism of all things as their main focus. Lord, help us…
I hear ya on the money issues Jason.
“now i just need to find someone to pay for me to finish school, write a book, find a publisher, and get out on the road, all while keeping food in the mouths of my wife and i… and a roof over our heads…”
That plan sounds really familiar.
Mike, I’ll grant you that I misinterpreted your intended point. But your last paragraph:
“life goes on OUTSIDE the temple. Likewise, we need to love our pastors enough to get them OUT of the church.”
sounded to me like you were saying: What they’re doing inside the church isn’t important and a waste of their time. Thanks for clearing that up.
I also don’t think life outside the Temple is analogous to life outside the Church. These are two different demographics not to mention two different models of service. I have seen life inside the church. Although, I’ll grant you it’s not universal.
Big Kudos to you on Veronica’s comment!!! We often hear only the negative about past pastors. Kinda makes you want to get back behind that pulpit, huh? (by the way, is that the correct use of huh?)
Very, very interesting post, Mike. You’ve certainly struck a chord here, judging from the comments!
I agree with your basic point, that pastors need to be in touch with the common folk. How else can a pastor give practical applications of the Word in his teaching? Not only that, but I think if a pastor is not in touch with the world outside of the church, it feeds resentment in the congregation.
I’ve seen it in my church–the constant calls for more work and volunteers in the ministry, giving up weeknights and weekends in service. It’s easier for the pastor to make that call and be there on a Saturday when his actual “weekend” is Monday/Tuesday. Or asking the congregation to approve a sabbatical when he takes the entire month of February off each year for vacation…and the rest of us poor schlubs make do with 2 weeks a year.
In a larger sense, I think your call here applies to Christians in general…we all can tend to find comfort and safety amongst the church, and our Christian friends. And then we also fail to engage the world around us. Instead, we just end up creating our own cliques.
So, should pastors be engaged in the world or equipping others to do so? The answer, of course, is somewhere in the middle…it’s finding the balance between them that is the trick.